Bogomil ShopovHere’s an idea: As an ordinary customer, like more than 90% of all Internet population I may don’t need “Web Developer” menu and maybe the rest 30% of current Firefox functionality.
Why don’t you create a lightweight version of Firefox, just for fun browsing?
One reason to keep it in there is that we _want_ every user to eventually care about what’s in that menu. If we can turn every web user into a web maker, the web will be an immeasurably more awesome place.
We don’t start that process by making tools harder to get.
Gerv
Dear Mozilla, please remove all the features in Firefox I don’t use, they are obviously bloat. But don’t even think of removing any of the features I do use, they are obviously crucial.
Like :)))
from what i understood, if we would hide the dev menu even if its still there it would make you happy.
as odd as it sounds I understand. its wrong, and kinda “dumb” and I disagree with it, but still, i understand.
if enough users think the same it could be something worth doing actually.
but you’d have to prove that somehow, and, i don’t know how myself.
maybe metrics will tell, since they measure how many people click on web dev tools.
This is highly amusing. First Mozilla decides to re-write the Firebug wheel, halving the resources dedicated to developer tools for us poor web devs. Now people are complaining about the presence of one pissy little Web Developer menu item as bloat. LOL
What a joke! The very extension system that propelled Firefox to a significant market share is now being ignored, in the ‘we too’ desire to have pre-installed tools. More to the point, the first versions of those tools, as seen in Aurora 10 and nightlies, are so grossly inferior to Firebug that it will take a long time to get them up to scratch.
Well sure, I agree to a certain extent. The thing is, what one person doesn’t like or want may be just the opposite for another.
The only truly fair way would be to give people the ability to choose what they do and don’t want (perhaps let them compile/customize Firefox for themselves). That used to all be done through add-ons, and there are add-ons that became default features and I still wonder why some things became default features, but it isn’t my browser ( entirely :) )
You have to consider that Mozilla has to offer what other browsers do, do it better than they do, and to offer their own unique bells and whistles.
I don’t think that it’s a good use of Mozilla’s resources to maintain another option. They’re still working out the enterprise issue. I do think that individuals could offer lighter versions of Firefox, and there are a few. That’s the beauty of open source I guess.
Removing a menu won’t make Firefox faster :D
I’m glad to see that some people in Mozilla still carry the original “spirit” of Firefox.
There is still hope!
I guess web developing tools are much more useful than the “tab groups”. And since I browse from my desktop, I have never used Sync either BTW.
If you worry of bloat, it is a well known fact that the real issue are plugins and extensions.
Maybe a customizable version will be awesome – if you’re developer – here;s your big firefox package to make the web, if not – here’s our idea to browse fast and better than now
I completely agree!
Let me tell you a secret: the Opera browser has a whole suite of development tools built in. The WebKit engine, likewise (though not all derived browsers enable it — Arora does, for example). Firefox is in fact the only serious browser where the development suite (called FireBug) is an add-on. You may want to rethink your request. :)
Better yet, use those development tools to learn how the Web is put together. That’s how we all started, and that’s why you can enjoy such a rich Web today. Do you prefer depending on Facebook for the ability to speak your mind online?
>>Do you prefer depending on Facebook for the ability to speak your mind online?
I don’t get that :)
What’s unclear, Bogo? :) If I want to publish something on the Internet, all I need is a host and domain name; the rest I can do myself, ranging from the looks of the website to the software that powers it. Whereas you depend on a big company that may suddenly go out of business, or simply decide to shut you up. I owe my freedom to the fact that even the earliest Web browsers allowed me to tinker and figure out how the Web works. And you want that freedom taken away from us all?
Still don’t get it Felix. What is connection between
freedom and web developer menu??
Bogo, the Web developer menu can help you pick apart websites and learn how they are put together. That gives you the freedom to make your own instead of depending on others for expressing yourself online. Ever heard the saying “knowledge is power”?
The engine can’t have developer tools built in. The browser
can. The engine has hooks to allow the tools to function –
Webkit and Gecko have about the same amount of them. Do you
seriously think that Firebug could work w/o extensive support
from Gecko side? The situation is getting fixed, BTW: Firefox
is getting webdev tools back, despite idiocy and stubbornness
of Asa Dotzler and others.
Well, Firebug is the most successful web development tool and it seems Mozilla wants to get rid of it.
Firefox has 400 million users. How many of them will use devtools? And panorama? 1 million?
Why? If we remove the Web Developer menu item, how does that make your browsing experience better?
I am using chromeless-like project these days and I am extremity
happy with it. Most of the menus are useless for me.
What other features are you thinking of? I’m unconvinced there’s all that much to be removed.
Lets take Safari on the iPad as a nice, simple, browsing-only app. What’s desktop Firefox got that it hasn’t? Web developer stuff. Live bookmarks. Find as you type. Tab groups. Save-as. Plug-ins. Add-ons.
So let’s remove the web developer menu, live bookmarks, tab groups and add-ons. Is Firefox really that much smaller or faster now? Is it any more fun?
History for example, bookmarks also :)
That’s because, the devtools don’t make it “heavier”.
That’s because, Mozilla’s mission is to make people aware of the web, and keep their right to tinker, check what the sites do, and so on.
Of course, many people are just here saying “take my money and shut up. Please control my life and my data”
But that’s against what Mozilla stands for.
And the main point is, if Mozilla hides the menu behind a about:config and all other menus too, you’ll believe its “lighter” and “faster”. Maybe even “more fun”.
The issue is people’s education, sadly.
>>”That’s because, Mozilla’s mission is to make people aware of the web, and keep their right to tinker, check what the sites do, and so on.”
Agree with that, but how many non-developer users will understand
what is web developer menu and “what the sites do” from it?
Bogo, obviously not everyone will use the developer tools to understand how the Web works. The whole point is to *give them the option*. Because if you don’t, then *nobody* will learn. Is that what you want?