Why Mozilla sucks? Fosdem 2010

I just send my proposal to Brian for FOSDEM 2010′s Mozilla room and I need some help. Be ready … please turn your sense of humour ON.

The topic is … Why Mozilla sucks?

When I ask my friends and colleagues and even some ordinary people – why don’t you crazy people like Firefox/ Thunderbird/ Raindrop/(name your favourite Mozilla project), I receive a lot of different answers.

So, can you answer the question? Help me to improve my talk and maybe I will owe a beer :) )))

Shoot now !

You can write here in English, Bulgarian, Macedonian, Romanian, Russian , German and French languages. Please do !

Bogomil Shopov

A Marketing Manager (Software, SAAS, API) | Sales, Metrics, Analysis, Team Management based in Prague, Czech Republic. As seen on Forbes, Mashable, ReadWrite and many more nice websites!

72 Comments.
  1. Adrianer says:

    From a Mozilla developer perspective, what really sucks is the Mozilla Developer Center:
    After the switch from MediaWiki do DekiWiki the site is nearly unusable. We were told, that all the glitches will be gone soon, but I hear that for now nearly 1.5 years and you still are not able to use it in any comfortable way.

    Examples:
    -why are the search results on MDC displayed so badly that I have to click and scroll and read for hours until I find what I’m looking for?!
    -why do I see Chinese(sic!) results in my search results?!
    -why do I have to learn a yet new syntax to edit articles in MDC?!
    -and so on. See more of such annoying bugs here: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=519025

  2. kron says:

    It looks awful on Vista/7 and isn’t native GTK/Qt on GNU/Linux.

  3. sowatever567 says:

    Firefox is slower than Chrome. That is why I love Chrome.

  4. Tollef Fog Heen says:

    The only one of the suite which I use is firefox (or rather, iceweasel). My main gripe is it is slow and memory hungry. Fix that and I’ll be much happier.

  5. calendarick says:

    Thunderbird and Lightning need a better support for syncing with mobile devices (read: phones, smartphones)
    I know there s some 3 party solutions for linux, but on windows i m stuck to the program that phonemakers deliver. Those usually only support the usual Microsoft suspects and sometimes Lotus.
    If i wanna sync my mozillaish PIM-thingy with my mobile i have to do so via a webserver (second best economically, ecologically and with many phones still second best at results)
    I admit that Thunderbird shouldnt start to build in support for diferent mobiel devices, but i guess offering a WELL DOCUMENTED API would help alot to motivate phone makers do add support (once the calendar apps have reached 1.0 this might be possible?)
    I d go a step further and suggest to consider to at least build in syncml support. that would cover a lot of phones actually.
    And other use cases!

  6. Ray says:

    I am concerned by the level of arrogance and elitism that many developers exhibit from time to time. For example, when they introduce something new–geolocation, jetpack, personnas, the complete overhaul of the default theme–they should expect a push-back from long time users. Instead, they seem to take offense at these comments to the point of ignoring and/or avoiding serious discussions about the issues.

    Few, if any, developers monitor the mozillazine forums. Those with blogs often moderate their comment areas and do not approve comments that they do not like. An example is not approving negative comments about the safety and security concerns of integrating geolocation into Firefox.

    Geolocation is an API that can provide the location of the user–an actual physical location of a mobile user–to a web site or other web connection/person they are in contact with. While it has been implemented according to international standards meaning no information is provided unless the user approves it first, it remains on the user’s installation/device whether he or she wants it there or not. More importantly, there is no stated advantage to having geolocation integrated into the browser meaning there is no reason why geolocation cannot be a stand-alone add-on or option that a safety- and security-conscious user can opt against installing.

    Try bringing this subject up in the comments section on a blog pushing geolocation. Do not hold your breathe waiting for it get approved.

    My opinion is that geolocation is being pushed by one or more benefactors of Mozilla–Google comes to mind and who is, by the way, the developer of a geolocation API. I do not care if this is the truth. What I care about is Mozilla being open about why they are integrating geolocation into Firefox especially when they cannot provide a technical reason why integration is superior to an add-on or an optional installation.

    To boil down the responses, geolocation will be a wonderful new feature so you should just trust the technology. On several occasions, NASA just “trusted” the technology. How’d that work out for the Apollo One crew and the two space shuttles that were lost? Remember Murphy of Murphy’s Law. Murphy was an optimist. He understood that despite people’s best efforts, something can still go wrong, thus it is better to be prepared for the possible failure rather than think it won’t fail. Mozilla is not preparing for the possible failure of geolocation and making it not just a pref that can be turned off, but, instead, making it something that the user can opt to not install in the first place.

    A browsing of the mozillazine forums and Planet Mozilla blogs will provide a number of posts and/or comments expressing displeasure with the apparent move to Jetpack for extension development fearing that this will reduce the extensibility and creative that is seen as possible with XUL. You can find similar controversy with the proposed changes to the default theme and the potential new headaches this may mean for those who make their own theme.

    Why I am mentioning these controversies is that the original mission of Firefox–as I understood it–was to be a lean, fast, safe, secure and highly customizable and extensible web browsing alternative to IE which was at the time none of these. Microsoft let IE slide as they took web browsing for granted and thus opened the door for Firefox, Opera and other browsers. Now, it seems as though Mozilla is taking the web browser market for granted–ignoring the users’ feedback–and moving Firefox towards a similar conformity that still marks IE.

  7. James says:

    Why does Mozilla suck? Because the NSS developers aren’t interested in breaking the PKIX SSL cert oligopoly by implementing RFC 5054, TLS/SRP. Because a history feature I implemented (storing referrer) was forgotten in the conversion to Places. Because Firefox pauses while scrolling a text webpage. Because Gecko leaks X memory so I have to restart X (or get more RAM – I now have 6GB just to run Iceweasel and Iceape). Because your trademark policy is stupid. Because there’s no .msi installer. Because you let projects silenty die – anyone remember ScreamingMonkey or the new Linux embedding API? How about Mozilla 2, the uberplatform to save Gecko and the web? Haven’t heard anything about those in a while. Because the preferences menu item changes between platforms. Bug numbers and links blog posts extolling undelivered features available on request.

  8. Philipp says:

    It has been said before, but must be said again: MDC! API documentation inside a wiki simply does not work. XULPlanet was shut down, and replaced by a horribly slow Minddev wiki, which has no real search function (only Google and site:developer.mozilla.org gives you good search results), which uses HTTPS for no reason other than to make it even slower, which is down a couple hours every week and has no real structure (well, it’s a wiki, I know …).

    Documentation IS important and it would be so much easier for developers to get things done if I wouldn’t have to grep + google all the time.

  9. raychje says:

    Old bugs do NOT get fixed!

    There are ~ 1200 bugs that are marked as “New” that have not been touched in over FIVE years. Why should a person bother filing a bug when there is a strong probability NOTHING will get done to fix it.

    There needs to be a bug fix release of Firefox that ONLY fixes old bugs. A bug marked as “New” is a real bug and should be fixed. As bugs age there priority should increase. New features are great, but old features need to be improved as well.

  10. Robyn Wiles says:

    Thunderbird can’t migrate its own files from one HDD to another automatically. It gives options for the competition but not for their own client! How shocking is that?

  11. Marc Diethelm says:

    Mozilla SUCKS because XUL was never completed, formalized or versioned and is unusable to create precisely designed cross platform GUIs other than a browser. Endless CSS hacks are needed to get kinda close to that goal. Mozilla the platform never materialized (apparently in order to ensure the survival of Firefox. Resources were and are limited).

    Mozilla SUCKS because Fennec has no implementation in Java for mobiles.

    I love Mozilla.

  12. Janson says:

    I’m yet to get a single mail reassuring me that my bug has been fixed. Numerous crashes. I’ve always made effort to type details about the crash. I just pray and keep using Firefox. Hope my crashes are fixed sub-rosa.

    Startup time is unpardonable. ’nuff said.

    And firefox is bottom heavy, obese even. It just doesn’t go away when i close it. The process runs in my Task Manager forever.

    I’m averagely literate and so have no problem in navigating the SUMO. But could i expect it from my bright yet old-school grandpa?

    Why would any sane netbook user install firefox?

    Add-ons guys are great though. They are geniuses, their apllications mirror my mind and most of them always painstakingly answer my dumb e-mails asking them questions. In fact add-ons are single greatest the reason i love firefox. Community, rightly, is the strength of the fox.

  13. James says:

    So how did your FOSDEM talk go? Are the slides or a recording available?

  14. Kyle says:

    Well, whenever I use anything flash / shockwave. Firefox decides its going to screw up all of the sudden. Make all my bookmark icons , the reload button, the stop loading button, the home button, the forward a page button, the back a page button, and my add on-s vanish until I close out of it so it can tell me I have Firefox already running but not responding then make me shut down my computer log back in and have the whole thing start over again.

  15. Pham Huy Anh says:

    Hi, technically Mozilla stuff may “suck” but the idea of open plugin and everything is free is great.

    BTW, I have to admit that XUL “is reinvent the wheel”.

  16. YemSalat says:

    I do not like FF simply because its help system is very user-unfriendly.

    I love its F12 feature which is way better then any other browser can offer (and this is being said by an Opera fan)

    Ok to make a long sory short – I just downloaded v4 which is about a month old to the date. At startup it asked me if I want to import all my bookmarks from Opera. “Yay!” I thought.
    However the process was not a straight line – it offered me about 5 or 7 different “Operas”
    (“ProgramFiles Opera”, “OperaBookmarks”, “OperaWhatever”…)
    So I just chose the one that said “Opera”. Then FF showed me a message, something like: “Congratulations you successfully imported: _blank_”
    Nothing was imported.

    Ok, I thought “I just need to import it from another Opera option…”
    Click on the main menu – nothing about importing there.

    I go to the help center, type my problem, it immidiatelly finds an answer.
    And guess what the answer is:

    “You can easily import all your stuff from other browsers – just click on the ‘Import’ option in the main menu”

    Very nice, thank you…

    PS
    Who designed this textbox? Its background replicates the typing-cursor color, very difficult to navigate.

  17. null says:

    Mozilla sucks, they are not able to write fast software.

    Cannot be compared with superiority of chrome.
    Firefox and Thunderbird suck big time.

  18. Name says:

    Firefox is equivalent to a use and throw item, good for initial use. I eventually learn’t i made a big blunder choosing Firefox. It cannot stop irritating popups and block ads even with ad block plus installed. It just cannot handle multiple tabs/windows playing flash/video content of different formats – crashed every single time when i tried to do so. The plug-in container thing does not go off even after closing browser. Some times there is a message like “Firefox is already running….x y z” but you cannot find the browser anywhere on the screen!! Every time a download starts, the download manager comes onto the front instead of running silently in background…When accessing a page from history,few days before, the highlighted history automatically shifts to present after opening the page, instead of staying there at the earlier date opened. This is very irritating and you have to open that past date in history repeatedly if you are searching for some page from it. There are many other problems like the ones above which were sufficient for me to dump this browser.

  19. flash crash says:

    Mozilla continues to turn out a browser that crashes with Flash. Then, they do not help. No help. Nada. You can read cries for help all over the internet. No help from Mozilla.

    NO help from Mozilla.

    Mozilla sucks.

    No help from MOZILLA!

    Mozilla sucks.

    NO HELP from Mozilla.

    MOZILLA SUCKS!

  20. Richard Neva says:

    OK, I have tried Mozilla before and always quit and dissolved it from my computer. This time, today I had Mozilla with Google for a browser and things were moving along. Then tonight I noticed my browser had changed! Yeah, no more Google when I hit the Mozilla button! I get AVG browser and I have had my times with those assholes too. I fooled around for awhile on the computer trying to rid it of that AVG browser which was terrible of course. Not that Google is that great but at least you have a chance of getting what you want with them, not so with AVG. I finally uploaded Google Gold or something like that and it was a browser much to my surprise! It works for me and when I hit the Google circle I am in like Flin! Of course I had to wipe Mozilla off the computer, that was of no use to me anymore. When I went into my registry on my computer I discovered so many kernels of AVG I could not count them and they would not delete! But as soon as Mozilla was gone they vanished too. What does that say about Mozilla? Think about that.

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